Adult Swim : I Should Watch That - Interview with Cliff Bleszinski

Epic Games Design Director Cliff Bleszinski is the face of gun-toting titles like Unreal and the ongoing Gears Of War series. Longtime Internet users might remember him as the proprietor of cat-scan.com, one of the web's very first galleries for cat pictures, circa 1999. His most recent work is on the sci-fi shooter Bulletstorm, released February 22. Bleszinski explained to us how his enduring passion for musicals has influenced his games (really) and how The Wire is like Angry Birds.

Bulletstorm Trailer

“I may make games that are bloody and violent, but I have a soft side for musicals and romantic films.”

Sons Of Anarchy

I'm really picky with TV, right? I used to be married years ago and all we ever used to do was watch Lost and American Idol. I've rubber-banded since then. Until about a year ago, I refused to watch a lot of TV. Dude, American Idol is for people who have nothing better to do, right? It's good that they have a venue for musicians, but it's the same thing with reality TV. Reality TV is for people whose lives are so boring and uninteresting that they have to watch people making idiots of themselves, right? Hence the Jersey Shore phenomenon.

“Reality TV is for people whose lives are so boring and uninteresting that they have to watch people making idiots of themselves, right? ”

But I'm a big fan and proponent of supporting well-scripted, well-shot, well-done television, so Sons Of Anarchy was outstanding. Just watching that on Blu-ray, it's a damn good-looking show. The thing about when you watch high-resolution television is that they cast these character actors--Ron Perlman's getting older and so are these other guys--and you want craggy-looking dudes in these roles. You can see every little pore and every pockmark on their face, and it just looks awesome.

Before Sunset

I was having dinner with friends the other night and we got to talking about films. I realized that years ago when I was back in my 20s and I was a little bit more emo I had seen Before Sunrise. But I had never seen Before Sunset. Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy meet for one night and they're the loves of each other's lives, but for some reason they never wind up getting together. It's just a heartbreaking journey. It's in my queue just because I've never seen the sequel, so maybe one night when I feel like getting a little bit emotional about things. I may make games that are bloody and violent, but I have a soft side for musicals and romantic films.

“There's no reason to do meth anymore. You have videos of cats sneezing and farting at the same time. ”

Are people surprised when they find that out about you?

That's the weird thing, though. Ask me what my horror film of all time is, and it can be anything. One of the recent ones that pops to mind is Martyrs, a French film, that's very tough to watch. When you pop in the DVD, it opens with the director looking at you and saying, "Ehh… Sorry I made this?" And you're like, "What?" And then you watch it and realize that it's really messed up but has a lesson by the end of why it's so messed up. Kinda like Funny Games was. I can enjoy a twisted, strange movie like that but also be like, "Sweet! Chicago's on Blu-ray now! Let's go see The Lion King on Broadway! Oh my God, I love Wicked!" I have this weird mix inside of me where I'll go to a hockey game and be like, "Kick his ass, Sea Bass!" but then at the same time hearing Idina Menzel's recording of "Defying Gravity" [from Wicked] and get goose bumps and get misty-eyed. There's this weird dichotomy going on with my tastes. I think it's important to enjoy all spectrums of entertainment that way.

This might be hard to articulate, but do you feel that your appreciation for musicals might somehow influence your creative output?

Potentially. Musicals in many ways are like kung-fu movies, which are both in many ways like pornos. Now, follow me through this train of logic. The story is there and of course it's wonderful, but let's be honest here: you're waiting for the big numbers. In a musical you're waiting for any combination of cast members to burst out into song. In a kung-fu film you're waiting for any combination of people to get into a fight. In a porno you're waiting for any combination of people to finally do it. Right? Let's cut to the action, let's cut to the chase.

The City Addicted To Crystal Meth / Breaking Bad

Watch the documentary here.

Breaking Bad has been in my opinion, hands-down, one of the best shows on television. It's just absolutely amazing. But this [documentary] is about Fresno, and the whole Northern California meth addiction. I guess this is keeping in theme of Breaking Bad, but meth fascinates me because it's so insidious what it does to people and how it gets a hold. Not only how it acts as an addiction, but what it physically does to you. You've seen these articles on the Internet about twin sisters, and one who got on crystal meth and the other didn't, and you see photos of them from over the years. It's just this combination of toxic chemicals, and the fact that you have this drug that's manufactured in labs that could potentially could explode, I'm like, really?

I'm further fascinated by how surgical they are in Breaking Bad with these loving shots of them cooking up, making a nice dish. You're like, "Wow, that looks fun to cook meth! Let's do it!" And it's like, no. For me, fundamentally, I can't understand that phenomenon and that addiction. Part of me has to wonder about, with regard to meth and just a small town, how much of that has to with just boredom. Especially when you're talking about young people. Same thing with huffing. Like, really? Like that one Intervention with that girl with the keyboard cleaner, and she's just sitting there sucking on it like nobody's business. [Laughs.]

Especially in 2011 with the sheer amount of entertainment available to you on the Internet for free, boredom is dead. There's no reason to do meth anymore. You have videos of cats sneezing and farting at the same time. There's this bottomless hole of time-sink of social media that you can use. At what point are you like, "Hey, I'm bored. What do you want to do?" "Hey, let's do meth." "Yeah, that sounds like a great idea!" That's why I want to see this documentary, because I want to see inside the heads of the people who become addicted to this.

Waiting For “Superman”

This whole idea isn't really anything new ever since The Jungle, as far as whistle blowing, but I have this weird fascination when I'm out at a pub and I meet a friend of a friend who's a public-school teacher. Same thing with a friend of mine in town who's a homicide detective. I'm feeding him beers and he's like, "Nah, I don't want to talk shop." And I'm like, "No, please! Burden me with this, I want to hear it." Public-school teachers, I pull them aside and ask, "So what's going on?"

Every one of them that I talk to is at the absolute end of their rope. They get paid absolutely nothing and have to put their own money into school supplies. The students-to-teacher ratio is atrocious. I talk to teachers in the Bay Area, I talk to teachers in North Carolina, I talk to teachers all around, and it's purely anecdotal evidence, but there are certain things that are not being taught. Even base things.

Even myself, being raised in New England, and the public schools are known for being pretty darn good. When I moved to California I phoned it all in and did well because the schools there are easy. But at the same time, base knowledge is missing. We're teaching our kids how to make English-muffin pizza in home ec., but we're not teaching them about how mortgages work or basic legal information. I've had guys at work who didn't want to be that guy who'd have to spend the money to send their kid to private school, but that divide is getting scary.

The Wire

There are two types of people in the world: those who know The Wire is the greatest show ever made and those who haven't watched it yet. Apparently. I'm in that camp of not knowing that The Wire is the greatest American television show ever made. It's in the stack. I'm up to date on Breaking Bad, Sons Of Anarchy, and my girlfriend tells me I need to watch Weeds. There's so much great TV, but they keep throwing Cake Boss at us.

But I'm fascinated with the concept of urban problems and urban decays, right? I don't know a lot about The Wire, but I just know that I need to watch it because it's apparently phenomenal. I was a big fan of Oz and other serials, so I need to pick that back up. I keep reading about this, and I need to get around to watching it. That's a lot of commitment to watch that much TV. When you see that stack, and you know it's going to be 46 hours of television, it's hard to get into. But if you were to sit down and tell me, "You're going to play Angry Birds for two hours," I'd be like, "No way, I'm not going to play Angry Birds for two hours in a row. I'm going to play one little level for two minutes." Then before you know it, you're in for two hours and are like, "What the hell happened?" Good serial TV does that.

Chopper

Watch the trailer on YouTube.

There's something about entertainment about dirtbags that I find thoroughly entertaining. Apparently it was Eric Bana's breakout performance where he's kinda fat and this career criminal who's supposed to be violent and brutal. Just one of those classics I haven't gotten around to watching.

You mentioned Sons Of Anarchy earlier. What is it about those types of characters that appeal to you?

I like the bad guys, right? Superman is my least favorite superhero when you start talking about graphic novels because he's the most squeaky-clean boy scout. I like the fact that Christian Bale's depiction of Batman, he's slightly crazy. The only way he can keep up with the Joker is by competing on a similar level of insanity. Those are the heroes I find interesting. And Wolverine with his tortured past. Spidey's okay.

Has this been your sensibility ever since you were a kid? Did it ever bleed through into your choices for Halloween costumes?

[Laughs.] Halloween for me lately is a series of the girls should look as slutty as possible and the guys should look as idiotic as possible. The last several years I've proceeded to procure as many fuzzy or silly outfits to really undermine it. It's strangely liberating, in a way. When you're at a club dancing and you're dressed like Clifford The Big Red Dog--you should try it. But as a kid I was more skewed toward the good guys. I was always big on the Autobots. Growing up, my brother and I would always pick a toy or intellectual property to get into, and then pick sides. For Transformers, I was Autobots. For G.I. Joe I was actually Cobra. And then I believe with He-Man I was Skeletor.

“When you're at a club dancing and you're dressed like Clifford The Big Red Dog--you should try it. ”

But if you look at Thor, and his depiction in The Ultimates, he doesn't really want to go along with Captain America. Captain America to me was always a boring character to me until they depicted him as a fish out of water in The Ultimates, which I'm hoping they'll have in the film adaptation. I like my heroes to be textured, and I like my bad guys to be ugly.